CEL from turbo swap

[bratman18]

So I decided I'd tackle my turbo swap today. I swapped in a VF39, and tuned it with my Accessport. After driving it a bit, I did a long pull and found that my boost went quite high then everything cut out and my CEL came on. I checked the code and it was PO244 which is something about wastegate performance, which would explain why I boosted too high. Any ideas on what I need to do to fix it??

[bratman18]

So the exact code is

PO244
Turbocharger solenoid 'A'
Range/Performance

[BG @ BrenTuning]

its an overboost code, make sure your turbo lines arent on backwards or you used the CORRECT lines cobb told you to do for their maps

sometimes they want you to run the td04 lines and pills on the vf39. Double check their documentation.

or get it custom tuned as base AP maps are lame for the VF cars. :)

[bratman18]

Alright I'll check again. I used the TD04 oil line, and it bolted right on, and the only other lines were the coolant lines, and the hoses went right on. Then there was only one vacuum hose, and I slipped that on where the other one came off. It goes great other than overboosting in a long pull.

[bratman18]

I did just go through Cobbs website and look through what they have to say about doing that swap. There is nothing about changing anything on the turbo. They are saying a direct swap. So I dunno???? I'm just gonna baby it so it doesn't over boost for now. Since I gotta go to work today. Any more ideas are very much appreciated!! Thanks

[BG @ BrenTuning]

Call Cobb and ask if they require the td04 boost lines and pills on the car - they used to on their WRX maps.

Also the lines have to go on the exact same way OR you will get boost spiking. there is a re stricter pill on the left side. Get it custom tuned :)

[bratman18]

^Thank you!!

[downest]

Alright I'll check again. I used the TD04 oil line, and it bolted right on, and the only other lines were the coolant lines, and the hoses went right on. Then there was only one vacuum hose, and I slipped that on where the other one came off. It goes great other than overboosting in a long pull.

There should be two vacuum lines going to the turbo, with a T between them. One side of the T goes to the wastegate, the other to the compressor nipple, with the restrictor pill in the wastegate end. The "middle" of the T goes back to the factory boost controller. If you are using the VF water pipes (if they came with the turbo), then you'll want to use a different clamp or screw clamp on the barbs, they tend to leak otherwise.

Bren's right, get that thing tuned to take advantage of the VF turbo.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

:)

[bratman18]

I would love to get it tuned, but it just isn't something I can do right now, so the AP will have to do for now.

So just for the hell of it, I changed out the vacuum hoses and restrictor pills from the stock turbo to the VF, and it helped, but it still over boosts. But I think that may be the issue though. But not completely sure.

[bratman18]

So I put the 04 STi vacuum hose and restrictor pill on today, and it didn't change a thing. Someone on another forum had a similar issue and said he drilled out the pill a little at a time until the issue went away, so I tried that and it got a little better, but I ran out of light, so I still have to see if it will work.

[Bu11dogg2]

I used to get the same code occasionally on my VF4018G legacy GT :(

As Bren said, it's a tune issue

[bratman18]

well I did pm him, just waiting to hear back.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

IMO You really need to pick up the phone and ask cobb what PILL you need to purchase for their VF39 maps or verify you have the right one in. OR find the LWG (lower wastegate duty map vf39) off their website. It will take 2 minutes of your time :)

Otherwise you need the map tuned for whatever pill is in it.

[drdabbles]

That restrictor pill issue has been going around for a good long while. Be careful when drilling it, because lots of people overdid it and had to buy a new one anyway. With the pill, you can get to a dealer to get the right part. Without the pill, you're SOL. :D

[bratman18]

Well I did call Cobb and the only pill they said I would need, is if I had an 07 WRX/STi with a catless exhaust system, just like the link I posted up. And I have not seen and LWG map for my XT on their website.

I have 3 pills right now, so it wasn't like I was drilling out the only one I have.

Bren I sent you a pm on another forum, I would love to know what it would cost, etc. So when you get a chance, pm me back. Thanks for the help!!

[bratman18]

So I called Cobb again today, and they tried to tell me it's because I have a catless exhaust system. They said the way they would fix it is to put the stock TD04 vacuum line and restrictor pill in, but I have already tried that. The other thing they said is to try to drill out the pill, which I have tried as well, and it helped, but now I am losing performance, it doesn't pull as hard at lower revs, and it will hold strong at 12ish up until 5k and then start to creep up over 20.

So Bren, if you think this is something that you can fix with a tune, then I am definitely interested!!! But I don't understand how others are running pretty much my same set up without these issues!! It's very frustrating!! Bren, please pm me and give me details. Thanks!!

[bratman18]

So with the advice from a tuner, I just tied off the hose that goes to the boost solenoid, and ran a straight hose from the nipple on the end of the turbo to the wastegate can. I saw absolutely no difference at all. So he say this means I need to port my wastegate!! I just don't understand why mine is doing this and it works fine on others?!?! I know Gabe is running a similar set up and his works fine, but he has a 2004 STi ECU, would that make all the difference??

[downest]

Port the wastegate? That doesn't make any sense. If it were my car, I'd ditch that AP junk and get the car tuned properly. There are at least two very good opensource tuners on the forum here (Bren and mattminer/WickedInnovation) who could get you car running much BETTER than an AP map, and you'd come out ahead on cash if you sold that Accessport, not to mention you wouldn't have to dick around with drilling the pills and such.

[bratman18]

If that solves it, I am all for it, but I need to be sure that that will fix it!! I have been reading about a lot of people having the boost creep issue with VF39's, even with an open source tune.

[bratman18]

This is the link I was reading. Scroll down a bit and you will see a pic of what is needed.http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635690

[BG @ BrenTuning]

perhaps you have a divorced downpipe? i see the wg flappers get stuck on the divider plates and not allowed to open fully and the car creeps.

with a wastegate line from the turbo to the wastegate nipple, your car should see 11 psi

[bratman18]

I have a bell mouth down pipe. And I tried the hose from the turbo to the wastegate and it acted exactly the same as it did before, over boosted. So ????

[BLACK-OUT]

how to fix: dont drive it like you stole it. get it tuned

[bratman18]

Oh I am being easy on it, I don't wanna hurt it. And I am waiting for Bren to get back so we can set something up. But Are we all sure that a tune will fix it?!?!?! I don't want to go through the hassle of meeting up and getting the tune, and finding out it's something else. I know a tune is good no matter what, but I wanna make sure that it WILL fix the issue!

[BLACK-OUT]

try using a manual controller or something.. when I went catless dp i had over boosting issues too.. a tune fixed it right up

[bratman18]

Thats good to know. I have a manual boost controller on the way, because Bren told me to. I just hope it works!!!

[bratman18]

I have been hearing from others that it is boost creep, and the only way to fix that is either a more restrictive exhaust, or port the wastegate because the wastegate is being overpowered, and can't open and flow like it is supposed to. But I am also hearing that a boost controller could possibly fix it!! Man this is confusing

[bratman18]

This is info I got from another site....................

Turbo functions by pressure differential; ie, difference in pressure on one side of the exhaust housing versus the other. By causing some extra pressure on the post turbo side (perhaps by adding a cat), you can reduce some of that differential.

So you're saying you looped it directly to the actuator, or took the pill out entirely and still see 20? I'm kind of surprised, but not in complete disbelief either.

If you're saying yes, than a tune will NOT fix it, unless you get a tune up to 20psi or beyond, which though plausible, is generally further than I'd go for a daily driver pump gas tune and also stock injectors.

[WRXnate]

EWG..... try and boost creep that pig.

/thread.

[bratman18]

I would love to!!! But I really don't have the $ right now to do that. If I did, I would have already done it!!

[BG @ BrenTuning]

Without see and logging the car, it would be amateur to assume a tune would fix all and there weren't mechanical hold backs.

If you are using a used turbo you may want to check the wastegate flapper isnt locked down or welded for an EWG car. :) I have never had a car creep on me after tune.

[bratman18]

The turbo is almost brand new, less than 3k on it, and the wastegate flapper works great. I am gonna port the wastegate a little today and see what happens. I'll let you guys know what happens.

[Bombay994]

If you are using a used turbo you may want to check the wastegate flapper isnt locked down or welded for an EWG car.

X2, with a line straight to the WG, and you get NO reduction in boost, there is no way that WG is working at all. Good luck

[bratman18]

Will find out soon if porting the WG is gonna work. Waiting on the dremel to charge

[Bu11dogg2]

subscribe

[bratman18]

Well it works much better, but still not perfect. I might have to take it out and some more. But it really didn't go above 20psi this time. But it's good to at least have it go a little in the right direction.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

X2, with a line straight to the WG, and you get NO reduction in boost, there is no way that WG is working at all. Good luck

yeah thats what it sounds like to me.

[bratman18]

So you agree that I should port the wastegate a little more, and it should get better? It definitely got better after I did it some today.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

i dont agree with porting. It was a way of the past with vf39s back in 2004.

if you it too much you can ruin the turbo too.

I suggest looking at the wastegate flapper and making sure its working.

[bratman18]

OK, well the wastegate flapper works fine, it moves freely as does the wastegate arm. What would be your next suggestion?? Could the boost controller fix the rest of it??

[Bombay994]

if you can, try putting 7-12 psi pressure to the WG with a compressor and see if the arm moves, if it does you may be correct in needing to replace the boost controller

[BG @ BrenTuning]

Try the mbc turned all the way down. It should bleed off to 12 psi or so across the board.

[bratman18]

I haven't gotten the MBC yet. And hopefully it has some sort of installation instructions!! I posted about the issue on Nasioc to see what people had to say about it. Someone said to get an open source tune and it will tune right out. Then the next guy replied with this......
"Boost spike can be tuned out, creep cannot. Tell me how you are going to tune out the fact the WG can't bypass enough gas? Port the WG, get an EWG or get a more restrictive exhaust. A boost controller isn't going to do anything the factory BCS isn't already doing. Those are the options."

Man I wish everyone would just agree on what to do!!

[bratman18]

Bren do you agree with anything that was stated above?? An EWG is pretty much outta the question unless I can sell a car, or something, and I guess it's a possibility to get a catted DP or something if the more restrictive exhaust would cure it, but what do you think??

[bratman18]

Ok one more question. Is there any adjustment of any sort on the wastegate arm to make it open more?? Or would the wastegate off my stock turbo possibly work?? I'm just throwing out ideas here!!!

[MarkTheShark]

I was having the same issue with my vf39 on my fxt. Even with a line right from the compressor to the wastegate it still creeped its way up to 20 psi. I'm also completely catless on the txs 4inch.

Said **** it and got a killer deal on an ewg. Best purchase I've ever made. The turbo flows much more air now. I'm seeing 275g/s at only 16psi.

Listen to Bren, he knows what's up:D. If there's one thing I've learned about Nasioc over my year and a half of tuning is that there is a **** ton of false information over there.

[bratman18]

Well I would love to go that route, but I really don't have the $ to do that right now. If I sold something I would! Thanks for the info!!

[BG @ BrenTuning]

Certain downpipe (invidia v3) designs had this problem with early 04's. A catted downpipe should give you enough backpressure. You won't lose any power and your car will smell better.

I haven't seen this happen in many years and we have two people in this thread with FXT VF39s haha.

B

[bratman18]

Ok, so I guess I should try to find a catted DP. I can hopefully find one that isn't outrageous!! Most of them are crazy expensive!! I'll see what I can find. Thanks again Bren for all the advice!!

[BG @ BrenTuning]

im sure someone will swap with you on a trade :)

[MarkTheShark]

With the cat it creeped a lot less. It would hit maybe 14 on an open wastegate as opposed to the 20psi catless.

[bratman18]

Thanks guys. Yeah I have it posted we'll see!!

[bratman18]

So I got my MBC today and threw it on. I turned it all the way down like you said, and sure enough it holds 12 psi, until 4th, it creeps up to about 19ish, and 5th still will creep up over 20 at around 4.5-5k RPMS, but it holds at the lower psi longer before it creeps, so it helps!! So I'm still working on getting a catted down pipe. I haven't had any luck with a used one yet. Hopefully soon!!

[bratman18]

I got a catted down pipe yesterday. I hope to get it installed soon and hopefully it will fix the problem!!

[bratman18]

Bren, or anyone else that may know......on the Forge UNOS MBC, what does each click translate to in boost??

[bratman18]

Ok, I also wanted to make sure I have it hooked up right. It worked, when I put it in i turned it all the way down and it held 12 psi like Bren said, but the more I look at the thread about boost controllers, the more I am unsure if I have it in right. So what goes where?

[bratman18]

^BUMP for the question.

[bratman18]

It worked!!! I don't over boost anymore!!! I just got done installing my new (to me) Perrin catted dp. It still creeps a slight bit, but no over boost at all!!! I can finally enjoy my VF39 swap in my Forester!! I will eventually have Bren tune it, but for now, it will due till I can set something up. Thanks for all the help guys!!!!