well, i have an issue

[07xtreme]

so got onto the rollers today, fiinally.

back ground:
96 legacy wagon, 02 wrx swap(just motor, drivetrain is stock legacy)
3" catless tbe
ebay intake
catless up pipe
tuned for 17ish psi

well my car put down 158hp, 155 ft/lbs....fml....im so lost. ive done a compression test and everything was mid 150. boost gauge claims my turbo is doing it job and hitting 17psi. no code what so ever, and my tuner has done quite a few tunes on my ecu without seeing any issues.

ive had two suggestions, one being turbo is tired and its not pushing the right psi just not the right cfm...two being do a leak down test/check all my valves for tolerances

what do you all think? my tunes a little lean but if anything that should make more power(unsafley haha)

[Aperture]

Couple things.

1) Who tuned it

2) What dyno was this on?

[07xtreme]

1) Alex W. some people may know him as "Ovrbst", he has the black supra.
2) Dynomite at Kinetic Motorworks

[squeethebee]

From everything I've heard, that guy is crazy good with tunes. Leakdown it is!

ed

[shtbxr22]

how many miles on the turbo? any exhaust leaks? leak down test.....good idea. :D

[07xtreme]

I'm not positive on the turbo mileage but id like to say no more than 100k. Def no exhaust leaks. I just welded my last pin hole Saturday haha. guess leak down it is.

[shtbxr22]

depending on how it was driven, i think 80k+ is when they start to show their age.

[07xtreme]

Now its building and holding 17lbs. Could it make the pressure but lack the cfm?

[shtbxr22]

I don't know too much about turbo dynamics, but i would think it's possible. a bigger turbo will outflow a smaller turbo at the same pressure. does it feel powerful at all?

[civic si hb]

Go to NED and make a few passes and see what kind of MPH you end up trapping with. MPH trap speed is a good way to use for power being put down to the ground. All these damn dyno days and these dyno's all read sp different and can be tweeked to read different. Get us a MPH if you can and lets go from there man...

[07xtreme]

I think I am going to do a leak down test just because it wouldn't be bad to know if my valves are f'd or not. The car runs and idles very smooth, and it feels "quick". But at the same time I lost to a low-mid 14 second mini on the highway and a gtp Hung with me. Which makes me think the cars only good for a high 14.

[Berge56]

Very sorry to hear mang..... def o a leakdown test and let us know.

[Bu11dogg2]

I've been on their dyno, it's pretty spot on :)

[07xtreme]

snagging a stock turbo tomorrow...we will see if it changes anything...if it doesnt, ill have a stock turbo for sale haha

figure its worth a shot. talked to my buddy today who owns a shop, hes going to let me know sometime this week that i can come down and do a leak down test at his place(i dont feel like buying or making a tester)

then if that doesnt put me in the right direction im going to get all my reciepts in a folder, a 5 gallon gas can, and a box of matches hahahaha

[BG @ BrenTuning]

low compression activity should be pretty obvious during the tune. Your tuner's logs should help you verify this.

You may want to see what other wrx's with those mods baseline on that dyno, it may be normal.

[civic si hb]

If you look at the thread on NEMS every car dyno'd lower than they previous have on other dyno's. Some as much as much as 50whp less. A 2009 stage 2 wrx put down as much as a stock 2009 usually puts down from what was said, keep that in mind too.

[Bu11dogg2]

^link that thread please?

[civic si hb]

^link that thread please?



This is page 4 where they start talking about the numbers that were put down and continue through page 5 and 6 also....

http://www.nemotorsport.com/boards/showthread.php?t=9154&page=4


Here's a quote from a guy with a V8 Fire Bird

"My car does 402/378 on a Mustang dyno ( a low reading one )
It does over 425/390 on a Dynojet
On Kinetics dyno it did 364/370 ?"


Another Quote:

"Something was definitely off I think. My buddy with the modded 09 WRX put down stock numbers"

[batorr]

i just noticed that you didn't mention anything about a fuel pump upgrade. are you using the stock legacy one?

[Bu11dogg2]

This is page 4 where they start talking about the numbers that were put down and continue through page 5 and 6 also....

http://www.nemotorsport.com/boards/showthread.php?t=9154&page=4


Here's a quote from a guy with a V8 Fire Bird

"My car does 402/378 on a Mustang dyno ( a low reading one )
It does over 425/390 on a Dynojet
On Kinetics dyno it did 364/370 ?"


Another Quote:

"Something was definitely off I think. My buddy with the modded 09 WRX put down stock numbers"


dude, read the tread!

http://www.nemotorsport.com/boards/showpost.php?p=170489&postcount=96

http://www.nemotorsport.com/boards/showpost.php?p=170511&postcount=97

[07xtreme]

im running a wrx fuel pump...i hope my car isnt suppose to be that slow, that would suck

[civic si hb]

dude, read the tread!

http://www.nemotorsport.com/boards/showpost.php?p=170489&postcount=96

http://www.nemotorsport.com/boards/showpost.php?p=170511&postcount=97


This I know too....

The Rabbit is a 4 speed (I would think 3rd would be the closest 1 to 1 ratio)

Maybe this is what happend to his Legacy swapped with 2.0L wrx engine too, wrong gear and not all the way the through the gear. Just throwing .02 and some other idea's to help him out.

[07xtreme]

they ran it in 2nd and put down 155hp, and in 3rd for 158hp...

i dunno maybe its just a little on the low side because the turbo is tired and its actually not that far off. we shall see if a newer turbo changes anything.

[Berge56]

Pulls on a dyno are usually done in 3rd gear for a 5 speed and 4th gear for a 6 speed.

Hopefully the used turbo solves your issue.

[Shiux]

IDK if it will help you at all, but with...

VF34 Ball Bearing Turbo
TurboXS Down-Pipe (catless)
SPT Catback Exhaust (3 inch)
Blitz SRI/Filter
STi PiNK Injectors
STi Top Mount Intercooler
Walbro Fuel Pump
Fidanza Clutch
ACT Lightweight Flywheel

and EFI Logics Open-Source tuned @ 20psi, I made 267awhp on a mustang dyno.

So we have comparable exhaust systems, comparable intake, what turbo are you using? stock? What about injectors? I don't really know the limitations of the stock WRX fuel pump, but I would imagine that if you have plenty of air coming in, plenty going out, the only way to "free up HP" would be with better fuel managment.

iunno.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

by seeing other cars dyno results it appears your figures are spot on - it's a heartbreaker for sure.

[Aperture]

I think it's also worth noting in this thread that Dynamometers are for tuning, and seeing before and after gains in power. They are a calibration instrument, and ALL OF THEM READ Differently. To see how much power you made you would realistically have to use the exact same dyno in your before and after comparisons, under similar atmospheric conditions.

Too many people get caught up in the numbers game and forget that it is all relative, and depends very highly on dynamometer orientation, and calibration.

Your car is putting down about what a stock 02-05 WRX would put down. You are around "stage 2" which is GENERALLY good for 225whp. If their dyno reads low it is CERTAINLY possible that you are right in the ballpark of where you should be.

You say that your car is likely a 14 second car like it's a bad thing. A stock WRX is only going to do mid-low 14's. A stage two wrx should be in the high 13's comparatively.

Do a Boost/Vacuum Leak Test, Do a leakdown if you'd like, make sure the car is running well and go from there. Try getting some dyno pulls in on a mustang, see what you get there.

THe moral of the story is that no Dynamometer is 100% "Accurate" They all read differently. No single dyno is going to be "right" and they aren't supposed to be. They are supposed to give you an accurate reading of before and after.

[07xtreme]

Well I guess we shall see what gets put down on kinetics dyno this weekend. I gotta check the dyno list but there's got to be atleast one 2.0l dynoing.

[-GWOOD-]

Pulls on a dyno are usually done in 3rd gear for a 5 speed and 4th gear for a 6 speed.

Hopefully the used turbo solves your issue.

5th for a 6Speed for me :devil: Alex knows his Stuff, i vote low reading dyno.

[07xtreme]

ok so my car definitely has an issue. took it to the track last night. babied it like no other off the line (my tranny has 220k on it) so i pulled a 2.9 60'...that's not the issue, it was the best time of 16.7 at 89 down the other end that's the issue. the car run flawless and my tuner hasn't seen anything silly pop up while tuning. my thoughts are either my valves are f'd or I've got a broken ringland. leak down test will be done by Sunday.

oh and if anyone's wondering my final drive is the 3.90. and i just did a walbro 255, new stock turbo, fixed a up pipe leak, and got my boost to 20psi. a/f was good at mid to high 11s. could use another tune session but that's not going to give it 50 more ponies haha

im out of ideas on what else it could be other than internally. it just messes with me that it run mint, just slow as all hell

also, i think the most depressing part, my Colorado runs a 15 flat at 91

[Aperture]

What the ****? I have to be honest here dude if you're pulling 2.9 60's im surprised you're not running an 18.0

What the HELL? I don't know HOW you managed that. The two times I've gone to the track I cut 2.2-2.3 60fts on a fwd maxima with bald ass all seasons.

If you're not seeing smoke on startup, accel, or decel, I DOUBT you have a fubar ringland, and if your valves were effed you'd likely hear valvetrain noise or it wouldn't run "mint".

I think you need to run a compression test, but I don't think there is much wrong with that car.

[07xtreme]

haha i guess you didn't read the thread. compression test was 153 across the board. i cut a 2.9 because i casually strolled off the line because i don't need or want to buy a tranny right now. if i dumped it im sure i could cut a 2.0-2.2 60'. but my trap still wouldn't be where it should be.

[07xtreme]

and as for my thought on a ringland, a compression test pushes down, so if its a cracked ringland supposedly it can hold compression on a tester yet have blow by on the down stroke. or so I've read. im not a mechanic, don't claim to be. im a car enthusiast just trying to figure this thing out, hence the reason im here picking your brains

[BG @ BrenTuning]

ok so my car definitely has an issue. took it to the track last night. babied it like no other off the line (my tranny has 220k on it) so i pulled a 2.9 60'...that's not the issue, it was the best time of 16.7 at 89 down the other end that's the issue. the car run flawless and my tuner hasn't seen anything silly pop up while tuning. my thoughts are either my valves are f'd or I've got a broken ringland. leak down test will be done by Sunday.

oh and if anyone's wondering my final drive is the 3.90. and i just did a walbro 255, new stock turbo, fixed a up pipe leak, and got my boost to 20psi. a/f was good at mid to high 11s. could use another tune session but that's not going to give it 50 more ponies haha

im out of ideas on what else it could be other than internally. it just messes with me that it run mint, just slow as all hell

also, i think the most depressing part, my Colorado runs a 15 flat at 91

let us know the leakdown results

you can tell when a car gets pissy with a weak motor while tuning due to a cracked ringland.

The hp/tq numbers and trap speed are almost right in line.

[07xtreme]

i sure will post the leak down results. and i agree with the trap/hp/tq all fitting together, which sucks.

[shtbxr22]

and as for my thought on a ringland, a compression test pushes down, so if its a cracked ringland supposedly it can hold compression on a tester yet have blow by on the down stroke. or so I've read. im not a mechanic, don't claim to be. im a car enthusiast just trying to figure this thing out, hence the reason im here picking your brains

When I broke a ringland on my #4 it showed 40 psi. the rest were at 150-160. ;)

[civic si hb]

With the 89mph trap that will also go up a good amount with a improved 60ft. I would think with your mods you should be around a 96mph or so. But almost cutting a 3.0 60ft is also going to hurt your trap speed. Willing to bet if you cut a 2.0ft you'd gain quite a few mph. We already know the dyno you were on reads pretty low from the numbers we've seen posted now on 2 sites having dyno days. The average person from what i've seen has made roughly 7% less on this dyno compared to other lower reading dyno's. So even with that in mind that would still only put u at 166whp. So I'd really have a compression and leakdown test and see what you come up with. When I had my stock buyeye I cut a 1.85 60ft and hit 14.1 @95 or 96pmh years ago.

[07xtreme]

When I broke a ringland on my #4 it showed 40 psi. the rest were at 150-160. ;)

your breaking my heart haha...if i do a leak down and it comes out fine i dunno what im going to do. I've gone through everything. my fuel system is good to go, no vacuum or boost leaks. new stock turbo which you can tell is better than the first. checked all my pre turbo exhaust. its all tight and leak free. I've heard nothing but great things about my tuner so i have faith in him. i dont burn any oil and its straight oil when i change it. never seen anything in the oil. i just really don't get it...

[07xtreme]

With the 89mph trap that will also go up a good amount with a improved 60ft. I would think with your mods you should be around a 96mph or so. But almost cutting a 3.0 60ft is also going to hurt your trap speed. Willing to bet if you cut a 2.0ft you'd gain quite a few mph. We already know the dyno you were on reads pretty low from the numbers we've seen posted now on 2 sites having dyno days. The average person from what i've seen has made roughly 7% less on this dyno compared to other lower reading dyno's. So even with that in mind that would still only put u at 166whp. So I'd really have a compression and leakdown test and see what you come up with. When I had my stock buyeye I cut a 1.85 60ft and hit 14.1 @95 or 96pmh years ago.

yea see that's the thing. i think even if i cut a 2.0, i feel like i may be able to get it to a mid 14 at like 93-94, maaaaybe. my mod list is getting up there, the vehicle is supposedly sub 3k lbs. the only thing for mods i don't have is turbo inlet, header, and tgv delete. then from there is turbo, injectors, intake mani, and internals. i feel like the car should have more pep in its step. i feel like with a good launch the car SHOULD be plenty capable of the 13s, which as of right now i could do a 6k launch and i still wouldn't be there.

[07xtreme]

also, i wanted to weigh my car last night to see if its really as light as people claim them to be but the scale was blocked off. but im going to see if the nashua dump will let me way it this weekend haha

[07xtreme]

oh and also shtbxr22 your car sounded really good when you pulled in, i was outside the gate plugging my headlight connector back in

[civic si hb]

yea see that's the thing. i think even if i cut a 2.0, i feel like i may be able to get it to a mid 14 at like 93-94, maaaaybe. my mod list is getting up there, the vehicle is supposedly sub 3k lbs. the only thing for mods i don't have is turbo inlet, header, and tgv delete. then from there is turbo, injectors, intake mani, and internals. i feel like the car should have more pep in its step. i feel like with a good launch the car SHOULD be plenty capable of the 13s, which as of right now i could do a 6k launch and i still wouldn't be there.


Yeah no doubt you should be able to break into the 13's with your current mods and trap higher than that 93-94mph man.... You're making the boost and holding it well from what u said. I'd do the compression and leak down test that'll give ya some info i got a feeling.

[07xtreme]

well my computer no longer has excel so i cant do much with it so i snagged a screen shot of my last log on the 17th. this is after the turbo, exhaust leak, fuel pump, and the boost upped. it needs to be re tuned but this is where i am.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7688/logpic1.jpg

[Bu11dogg2]

also, i wanted to weigh my car last night to see if its really as light as people claim them to be but the scale was blocked off. but im going to see if the nashua dump will let me way it this weekend haha


if the Nashua one won't, the Merrimack one will :)

[07xtreme]

^^good to know

[Bu11dogg2]

Just make sure you ask permission before you drive on it ;)

The guy is pretty cool but he gets cranky when it comes to his scale.

I plan on heading over on Saturday

The transfer station and recycling center is open TUESDAY through SATURDAY from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM

[WeldingHank]

your airflow numbers seem low for a stage 2 setup.

[07xtreme]

well its rich because its after the walbro 255 swap. it thinks im still running a stock wrx pump

[shtbxr22]

oh and also shtbxr22 your car sounded really good when you pulled in, i was outside the gate plugging my headlight connector back in


thanks! :up: i knew i recognized the car. :D

[Psychoreo]

well my computer no longer has excel so i cant do much with it so i snagged a screen shot of my last log on the 17th.


Openoffice.org

[07xtreme]

Openoffice.org

sick!!! thank you. now i don't have to try to read my logs in notepad haha

[Psychoreo]

hahaha yea openoffice is amazing!

[BG @ BrenTuning]

well its rich because its after the walbro 255 swap. it thinks im still running a stock wrx pump

log your manifold relative corrected and a,b,c,d fuel trims

[shtbxr22]

I'll see if i can help tonight.

[07xtreme]

well, did another compression test...mint. did a leak down test....mint. did a boost leak test...found one decent leak, now fixed. borrowed a maf, seems to be my issue...

nick needs a new maf pronto

[civic si hb]

well, did another compression test...mint. did a leak down test....mint. did a boost leak test...found one decent leak, now fixed. borrowed a maf, seems to be my issue...

nick needs a new maf pronto


Good to see an update bud :)

[shtbxr22]

git 'er done!

[Berge56]

glad to hear it sounds like something on the cheap side. :up:

[shtbxr22]

$269. nope. :(

[BG @ BrenTuning]

well, did another compression test...mint. did a leak down test....mint. did a boost leak test...found one decent leak, now fixed. borrowed a maf, seems to be my issue...

nick needs a new maf pronto

:)

[Berge56]

$269. nope. :(

Well that is cheaper then a motor. :lol:

[shtbxr22]

ah, yes. ;)

[BG @ BrenTuning]

maf appears to be fine

[07xtreme]

of course you reply here, haha. i never even thought to look i just kept checking my email, crap. i guess that saves me 270.

well i guess this car is officially a mystery....anybody want it? i dont

[shtbxr22]

how much? :hide:

[07xtreme]

haha. let me get a full on bren tune, see what kind of magic he can come up with then we shall see. honestly i feel like this motor is cursed. and its not cursed in the way of breaking it just loves giving me the finger.

[shtbxr22]

:lol:

[07xtreme]

and my favorite part of all of this. if bren either finds something else i need to fix or just makes it run correctly in general. the car is going to just decimate the transmission, it already whines all day every day.

i need to find a cheap brighton tranny asap(3.90 final drive), i dont have the funds to go any other route just yet...unless someone buys my xtreme *cough* its on bostons craigslist *cough*

[shtbxr22]

I know my 07 2.5i had a 3.90 final. :shrug: I'm sure there are a bunch of options for you.

[squeethebee]

Yeah, there should be plenty of 3.90 trannys out there. Don't sell it yet!

ed

[07xtreme]

haha don't worry im not gonna go and sell it. that was more of a joke than anything.

but im going to seafoam it tonight to see if that frees up anything, its been randomly bogging when i go to start in first, been doing it for awhile, didn't matter what tune i was on it would just do it very randomly.

so seafoam. then im just waiting to hear from Bren about getting tuned, and hopefully the car will be good to go.

[squeethebee]

They absolutely RIP once done, look forward to that!

ed

[BG @ BrenTuning]

It was pretty obvious to me when looking at that original datalog posted what was up.....tonight I should be able to get my hands on it and see what magic can be worked or if there is an underlying gremlin that is holding mapping back.

[shtbxr22]

:munch:

[BG @ BrenTuning]

Smoked uppipe!

[Berge56]

awesome. Was it a stock or aftermarket pipe?

[07xtreme]

its aftermarket. bren said it sounded kinda funny but i guess ive been living with it so long i never noticed. think its between the header and the up pipe. he found a couple extra ponies and i think that was just enough to blow the gasket out. i ripped on it getting onto 290 and bam, race car exhaust.

the car had left us scratching our heads for a few hours until on my way home it let go. so we arent 100% possitive that its it. but im a good 90% sure. i didnt loose any power when the exhaust noise showed up, so that leads me to beleive the leaks always been there

it just through me for a loop because it didnt leak during the smoke out from the seafoam...but it all makes sense that the up pipe is the problem

[Berge56]

did you ever get high pitched noises when boosting? If you did that would be one of the signs of a preturbo exhaust leak.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

its aftermarket. bren said it sounded kinda funny but i guess ive been living with it so long i never noticed. think its between the header and the up pipe. he found a couple extra ponies and i think that was just enough to blow the gasket out. i ripped on it getting onto 290 and bam, race car exhaust.

the car had left us scratching our heads for a few hours until on my way home it let go. so we arent 100% possitive that its it. but im a good 90% sure. i didnt loose any power when the exhaust noise showed up, so that leads me to beleive the leaks always been there

it just through me for a loop because it didnt leak during the smoke out from the seafoam...but it all makes sense that the up pipe is the problem

i'd be curious where it's leaking, as it doesn't sound like an uppipe gasket leak (signature sound) it sounds possibly like a header leak. Either way it was big enough to throw the o2 sensor off.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

did you ever get high pitched noises when boosting? If you did that would be one of the signs of a preturbo exhaust leak.

Nope was not high pitched uppipe gasket sound, no air cooled vw sound either. Just sounded louder then normal like a good ol' catback leak. Definitely a unique problem.

[Berge56]

Nope was not high pitched uppipe gasket sound, no air cooled vw sound either. Just sounded louder then normal like a good ol' catback leak. Definitely a unique problem.


Love those. :unamused:

[07xtreme]

yea we shall find out tonight, ill get it up on the lift pull off all the heat shields, put someone in it and bounce it off launch control....that should show us where its leaking for sure hahahaha

when i got back to nh i popped the hood(i never checked it on the ride home cause it was obviously just an exhaust leak) and it sounded like it was coming from directly under the turbo...i tried to get my hands down there to feel around but after 1hr 20min drive everything was a little bit hot. but its the weirdest sounding exhaust leak. it sounds ridiculously mean, but it doesnt sound good haha

[07xtreme]

wasnt my issue...sad face

[Berge56]

wtf. :unamused:

[07xtreme]

i got better response and thats about it. im so f'n lost. so right now my a/f bounces a little through normal driving, we thought it was my maf or front o2 sensor, my maf reads alright through the ecu and my o2 sensor is only like 8k miles old and its a boche wrx replacement(i thought it was a universal crap one but its not). its faster than it was but i took a ride in a 02 wagon with my mods and it would blow my doors off.

im so frustrated now. the maf and o2 would only effect my cruising around. it would have nothing to do with the overall power. im going to check timing one more time. but we aleardy did that once. if its not timing then im going to change my injectors(which i doubt thats the issue, but itll be just one more thing eliminated)

and then we also talked about super sloppy drivetrain and possibly it robbing a good amount of power....but theres no way in F that its robbing 50-60hp

[squeethebee]

I had an injector issue and was throwing misfire codes. Get any of those? Was definitely robbing A LOT of power. Did you get the tune looked at?

ed

[07xtreme]

0 codes. 0 real driving issues. i spent 4hrs with bren last thursday...we both left skratching our heads, figured it was the exhasut leak....nope. but from what he saw in the tune its a mystery haha

[Bu11dogg2]

what headers are you running?

[07xtreme]

stock headers with stock cross pipe. basic aftermarket up pipe. and i re gasketed my headers if you were curious haha

[Bu11dogg2]

I had a similar issue with my car... would only make 15lbs, no boost leak, compression was fine.

Found out the flex section in the cross pipe was leaking :unamused:

[07xtreme]

ill have to cut that out and weld in a new piece then, GAME ON!!! im down to try anything at this point

[BG @ BrenTuning]

Smoke test or seafoam should solve that. He claimed he already tried that.....

[Bu11dogg2]

could the flex section only leak under load or flex?

Mine did until it got bad.... then it leaked at idle :(

[07xtreme]

haha good call bren, i keep forgetting i did that haha....yea i honestly dont think i have any more exhaust leaks. i has to be something stupid. is there a 60hp connector somewhere or something haha

[07xtreme]

could the flex section only leak under load or flex?

Mine did until it got bad.... then it leaked at idle :(

how much slower was your car with the exaust leak? im getting the correct pressure in my manifold, so i am building the right boost it just lacks power for some reason

[Bu11dogg2]

made a lot less power.

[07xtreme]

It stuff like that, that makes me think. Like yea I seafoamed and yea all the smoke came out of the tail pipe. But whos knows under throttle if something like that was leaking a little. I let it idle and smoke then took it out and cleared all the seafoam out. Who's to say it didnt smoke out of the cross pipe while I was driving and since i was moving it basically blew away.

Ugh this blows....baby steps, I will figure this damn thing out

[BG @ BrenTuning]

Send map to me let's see if the tgvs are stuck closed or something

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

[RCKSTR]

Send map to me let's see if the tgvs are stuck closed or something

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

I had this exact problem... For over 3 months :palm:

[BG @ BrenTuning]

I had this exact problem... For over 3 months :palm:

and what were your problem symptoms?

[07xtreme]

yea what were your symptoms?....loss of 50hp? haha

[07xtreme]

well pulled the tgv flappers the other night. found a little bit more power. but now my car continues to pull all the way through 7k instead of falling on its face at 5.5/6k. so i think that's something. i honestly think im getting closer. not quite there but closer.

[squeethebee]

very good news.

ed

[Berge56]

Sweet dude! It def sounds like you are getting closer. :spin:

[Bu11dogg2]

grounding issue?

[07xtreme]

i have all the stock grounds hooked up and i even added two huge motor ground straps.

the car is slow again, like back to square one kind of slow...im going to do a boost leak test again because i took off a few front mount pipes to do the flapper delete. also once i do that, im going to pull the exhaust mani cross pipe, cut out the flex and weld in a solid piece. theeeen i think im going to get my hands on injectors. cylinder #3 injector had a weird staining compared to the other 3. so im looking at 07 wrx injectors or a set of pinks. i figure if i do any kind of turbo upgrade it'll only be a vf39 so those injectors should be fine for future.

then after that I'll come back here and post that nothings improved haha

[Berge56]

Good luck mang!

[07xtreme]

injectors should be on their way today, just snagged a cheap set of 07 wrx top-feeds. im trying a stock bpv tonight to see if my bov is leaking. and then im going to re try a maf. also if i get a chance im going to weld up that cross pipe tonight.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

sounds good, email me and ill help you with a file so those injectors run.

[07xtreme]

so im hoping the injectors show up today. im stilling running the stock bpv that i borrowed the other day, which ive decided to keep. and i got bored this weekend i grabbed a dirt cheap uel ebay header, one that claims to be stainless and ceramic coated. i have a hunch its not either haha. but i dont care. it does not have a flex section. so i figure ill toss that in, see if it makes a difference. it comes with an up pipe...which i have one already, so i can re sell it.

im almost at the point where i will have every single bolt on. really the only things after this is a turbo inlet, intake manifold, and a turbo. everything else is inside the block...

im really going to push to get this thing going by next Sunday so i can hit the track, but at this point its 100% up to the car. seeing it doesn't want to tell me whats wrong. this guessing game is starting to get old though.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

sounds good we'll want to dial it in for the track if all is working. :)

[07xtreme]

well spent a whole 15 minutes pulling my injectors last night. need injector seals for the new ones though. those are now on order and i will be getting them tomorrow. checked ups and my header wont be here till Monday.

hurry up and wait...yey

[OMG.EVO]

I'll explain the "turbo dynamics" since it hasn't been put out there yet...

Your entire intake system, through your engine, and out your exhaust, acts as a restriction. The "CFM" or rather the flow into this restriction would determine the pressure built up behind it. So, for a given system, with all things constant, to develop more flow into the engine at the same RPM the pressure at the inlet would have to be higher.

When people say that a bigger turbo can flow more at the same pressure, other variables have been changed such as exhaust, cams, or you are simply talking more revolutions. Example, you can have a small turbo that gets you up to 20 psig by 3200 rpm but it runs out of nut by 4500 and starts to taper down to 17. Strap on a bigger turbo and you may only tune it to 20 psig still due to some concerns you may have, however it may hold that pressure all the way to 7000 rpm. In essence, the more revolutions per minute, the less the restriction, meaning much higher flowrates at the same inlet pressure. It is all about what flowrate your engine is capable of in comparison to the maximum flow rate generated by the compressor.

That being said, if you are absolutely making the pressure you think you need throughout the rev range but the power just is not there, you have an excessive restriction someplace, fuel/ignition related, or something internal to the cylinder.

Did you ever get the MAF fixed up?
Can you log reliable flow numbers?
Do you know what kind of condition your valve train is in?

[SubySnacks]

Ecu limp mode???

[07xtreme]

Did you ever get the MAF fixed up?
Can you log reliable flow numbers?
Do you know what kind of condition your valve train is in?

1)we aren't sure if the maf is bad or not. the scaling is a little funky, but that's kind of tough for my to explain. maybe bren will chime in and help me out on this one.

2) how do i go about logging those? is that something i can read through the ecu, or do its need to be something physically logged? because if its through the ecu i can almost guarantee bren has looked at it.

3) well i cant exactly say my valve train is in good condition but I've sea foamed it and I've done a leak down test(test was right where it should be)

its really weird because my turbo spools and holds 17psi through redline, there is no dip at all. That's with a stock tdo4, which should dip down to 13-14psi at redline

[07xtreme]

injectors are installed and not the issue btw

[07xtreme]

well i feel like a dumb-ass. im 99% sure i fixed the car last night. Bren has been saying it for weeks and i just didn't want to believe him haha. im not sure what i was on when i checked my timing the first time, but with all four outer pulleys lined up the crank pulley was off by 2 teeth, i honestly have no idea how i failed on this one. its been a couple months since i had checked it but i didn't think i was that retarded. so yea make a long story short as of 1030 last night i reset my timing belt and all 5 pulleys are lined up. i just need to put it back together after work today and then i can grenade my tranny....

ugh im so upset with myself, but whatever it should be good to go now

[shtbxr22]

well, you've reached the end of the tunnel. yeehaw!!! now, get your ass in gear and have bren turn it into an animal. ;)

[Berge56]

:palm: Hey at least you found it! :up:

[civic si hb]

Congrats man!!!!

Get her tuned and hit the track this weekend before they close :lol:

[BG @ BrenTuning]

well i feel like a dumb-ass. im 99% sure i fixed the car last night. Bren has been saying it for weeks and i just didn't want to believe him haha. im not sure what i was on when i checked my timing the first time, but with all four outer pulleys lined up the crank pulley was off by 2 teeth, i honestly have no idea how i failed on this one. its been a couple months since i had checked it but i didn't think i was that retarded. so yea make a long story short as of 1030 last night i reset my timing belt and all 5 pulleys are lined up. i just need to put it back together after work today and then i can grenade my tranny....

ugh im so upset with myself, but whatever it should be good to go now

:berge::berge::berge::berge::berge::berge:

[07xtreme]

^^^hahaha, ive been face palming myself since last night...but i sent you an email this morning, the car will be back together and you'll have some logs coming your way tonight, then hopefully we can schedule a day to button her up

[SubySnacks]

Awesome man!!! Hey my idea was right!!! That's a first lol.. That's good to hear.

[shtbxr22]

And I confirmed today that if you are a tooth or two off, you'll have a snowballs chance in hell finding it by just looging info, or sensor readings.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

Three teeth off is when the valves smash

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

[shtbxr22]

I like smashed valves, they taste good. :shrug:

[Berge56]

And they are good for the motor building bidness. :D

[07xtreme]

And I confirmed today that if you are a tooth or two off, you'll have a snowballs chance in hell finding it by just looging info, or sensor readings.

and i confirmed today that when your 0 teeth off its sooooo much faster!!!:rofl:

[RCKSTR]

and i confirmed today that when your 0 teeth off its sooooo much faster!!!:rofl:

:rofl: good to know!

[Evoeater]

Congrats on solving your issue...they can be very discouraging :unamused:

[07xtreme]

and im back... so i sat around with some buddies last night and tried to go over everything we could think of

my symptoms are a sloppy idle, bounces from 15.5/1 to 17.4/1 and the rpms jump up when my gauge hits 17, so i think my gauge may be right(and responds very quickly when i stab the throttle). also, my car is lean with high 12s/1 under boost and mid 15s/1 driving around.

im on a basic stage 2 tune with a fix for my bigger injectors and a little bit of extra fuel. bren could tune around it and make it run fine, but that would just be a piece of bubble gum in the leaky dam. i might as well figure it out now. and with the basic tune my idle should be mint.

- fuel system is completely upgraded, everything seems to be working, and when i changed my fuel filter it had enough pressure to blow my finger off the line spray fuel everywhere haha, so i don't think the fuel-in is the issue

- i cant seem to find any vacuum leaks and my gauge holds a fairly steady 18lbs of vacuum

- as far as we can tell the fmic is leak free and working correctly

- there are no sensors throwing codes or anything, so i have to assume its not the wiring

- changed the front o2 last night and it literally changed nothing

- timing is CORRECT haha

my thoughts are the maf is acting up, just barley enough to mess with the idle and stuff but not enough to alarm bren?...i posted a thread about borrowing a maf

not sure if anyone else has had similar symptoms, if anyone needs me to go over the cars details again(ie mod list) just let me know and ill type one up

[shtbxr22]

see how it idles with the maf unplugged.

[07xtreme]

see how it idles with the maf unplugged.

doh why didn't i think of that...car idles a 15.5/1 and holds steady i let it sit and idle till full temp if the a/f moved it was only to 15.3 or 15.7 then right back to 15.5...but its was 15.5 90% of the time...so maf's my idle issue id say

[shtbxr22]

get out the brake clean. :lol:

[07xtreme]

my maf is cleaner than most new ones haha, I've used almost 3/4 of a can of maf cleaner on it in the past 5 months...think its just time for a working one.

[shtbxr22]

no i meant looking for a vac leak. (bustin' your balls)

[BG @ BrenTuning]

IIRC, 257whp and 276wtq today......;)

[07xtreme]

IIRC, 257whp and 276wtq today......;)

It feels so good now!!!

Bren thanks again for all the help, ill keep you posted on what I find. I'm gonna start with a maf, but in the mean time I'm going to search the web for other cases with oddball fuel issues

For anyone that's got any thought on my fuel issue, its still doing what I posted a few spots up...

[shtbxr22]

pull the vac line off the FPR. see if there is fuel in there. if so, get a new one.

[civic si hb]

I lost track..... Is the on a TD04 or VF39???

Congrats on finally getting somewhere bud and putting down some numbers that are making u happy :)

[BG @ BrenTuning]

I lost track..... Is the on a TD04 or VF39???

Congrats on finally getting somewhere bud and putting down some numbers that are making u happy :)

TD04.

[-boz]

I was going to say you're timing values seemed a little odd since it didn't seem timing was pulled when your knock went up.

[-boz]

Set your base fuel pressure to factory spec with a pressure gauge and check your IAC.

[07xtreme]

pull the vac line off the FPR. see if there is fuel in there. if so, get a new one.

^^^tonight's job..i shall post results, and i think im going to test for vacuum leaks again just for the hell of it

in other news, my fuel system definitely has a mind of its own, Saturday my a/f climbed to the 12s under boost, Sunday it hung out at 10.9 and climbed to 11.1, and this morning on the way to work sat at 11.6 and didn't budge up to redline. things nuts, but i dunno, maybe it just changed with weather conditions or something

and since this has been part of the thread, i went up to the track yesterday to watch my buddy run his 4g63 swapped ram50 for the first time. well since my car was in a good mood and running like i feel it should, my buddy gave me the ole peer pressure and talked me into running it

car ran a 15.002 at 98mph with a 2.5 sec 60'. treated my launch like i was pulling out of a parking lot haha. and i think if i hadn't taken my sweet time going through the gears(serious granny shifting) i could have a 100mph trap speed

also the scale was open, my car weighs 3040lbs with me in it, so my car buy itself weighs 2905lbs, not to shabby for a wagon

[civic si hb]

Yeah there's no reason not to be trapping over 100mph having a curb weight of 2900lbs and putting down over 250whp.... The 2.5 60ft is what killed you :lol:

[BG @ BrenTuning]

Nice! sure beats the 85 trap you had before.

if you nail it no reason why shouldn't go 103!

[squeethebee]

4G63 ram 50 you say?

ed

[07xtreme]

4G63 ram 50 you say?

ed

yea its pretty sweet. 4g63, evo3 16g, tuned on dsm-link, and all the normal bolt ons. hes only running 20psi right now but he has plenty of room. thing's great.

i really hate linking to other forums, but here's the link to his forum, it was supposed to be for back yard macanics but it got over run by d50s and mightymax 4g63 swaps haha...here's his build... http://www.hotrodcoffeeshop.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3

[SubySnacks]

<miss my 4g63t :(

[07xtreme]

<miss my 4g63t :(

i had a 91 talon tsi, i have never hated a vehicle more....swore off mitsu for life, my best friend has a galant vr4 and hes doing a conquest 4g63 swap, i cringe when he asks me to turn a wrench on it...

[civic si hb]

Don't miss my 97 GSX at all.....

[SubySnacks]

Correction I love it after I dumped 5k in restoration.

[civic si hb]

Correction I love it after I dumped 5k in restoration.


LOL.... Damn :rofl:

[-boz]

^^^tonight's job..i shall post results, and i think im going to test for vacuum leaks again just for the hell of it

in other news, my fuel system definitely has a mind of its own, Saturday my a/f climbed to the 12s under boost, Sunday it hung out at 10.9 and climbed to 11.1, and this morning on the way to work sat at 11.6 and didn't budge up to redline. things nuts, but i dunno, maybe it just changed with weather conditions or something

and since this has been part of the thread, i went up to the track yesterday to watch my buddy run his 4g63 swapped ram50 for the first time. well since my car was in a good mood and running like i feel it should, my buddy gave me the ole peer pressure and talked me into running it

car ran a 15.002 at 98mph with a 2.5 sec 60'. treated my launch like i was pulling out of a parking lot haha. and i think if i hadn't taken my sweet time going through the gears(serious granny shifting) i could have a 100mph trap speed

also the scale was open, my car weighs 3040lbs with me in it, so my car buy itself weighs 2905lbs, not to shabby for a wagon

Are you talking about the one and only Jeremy Nut?

[07xtreme]

Are you talking about the one and only Jeremy Nut?

haha yes yes i am

[07xtreme]

pull the vac line off the FPR. see if there is fuel in there. if so, get a new one.

no fuel in there, but it was sloppy on the intake mani side. i put a new hose on it. didnt notice anything, but thats something for the checked list.

and i was curious what this inlet nipple is for, its been like this since i got it. i really don't know why i have never looked into this, I've always wondered.
http://i56.tinypic.com/4q1jsj.jpg

[-boz]

haha yes yes i am

I posted I bought an 04 Impreza 2.5 and a day later he goes and buys a 05.

I'm waiting for him to get sick of the subaru piston slap and drop a 4g63 into it.

[-boz]

i had a 91 talon tsi, i have never hated a vehicle more....swore off mitsu for life, my best friend has a galant vr4 and hes doing a conquest 4g63 swap, i cringe when he asks me to turn a wrench on it...

I've never missed a vehicle more, you sneeze and instantly the car makes more power...

I've had (in order of appearance)..

1991 Plymouth Laser RS-T
1991 Eagle Talon TSI AWD
1992 Eagle Talon AWD With slipping clutch.
98 Eagle Talon TSI.

Favorite was the 1992, the thing flew with nothing more than a ported turbo and 2.5" straight through exhaust.

[shtbxr22]

no fuel in there, but it was sloppy on the intake mani side. i put a new hose on it. didnt notice anything, but thats something for the checked list.

and i was curious what this inlet nipple is for, its been like this since i got it. i really don't know why i have never looked into this, I've always wondered.
http://i56.tinypic.com/4q1jsj.jpg

My guess would be a reference for the boost control solenoid, but i'm not 100% sure. you have an MBC, so it's not needed. I'll confirm this at work today.....

[Berge56]

My guess would be a reference for the boost control solenoid, but i'm not 100% sure. you have an MBC, so it's not needed. I'll confirm this at work today.....

This ^

[shtbxr22]

confirmed....

[07xtreme]

thank you sirs, i appreciate the assistance

working on ironing out the details on a maf, and looking for a new intake

[07xtreme]

sooo... i was just reading a thread on the other forum, and its got my wheels turning in my head and not in a good way. so im still running my legacy radiator so i have two coolant caps, the wrx one on the motor and the legacy one on the rad. well randomly my legacy one will spray coolant all over the place.

so i start reading and this kid is having a similar issue, under boost he pushes coolant out the cap...cause his head gasket is f'd....i replaced the cap with a cheapo autozone one thinking mine was just clapped out, but it still does it, but never when im looking at it, so it must be during boost....fml...

and the more i think about it, when bren was doing runs on the dyno i made a decent puddle....he was in boost, a lot

[07xtreme]

hahaha so my buddy just told me im way to paranoid to have a modded car...he thinks its just a sloppy stock cap and then a junk autozone cap cause we did a leak down test within the past month/month and a half and this has been leaking for almost as long...

i need a oil change anyway so, ill just check the oil when i drain it...i haven't lost any oil so i dunno, maybe i am just paranoid

[Berge56]

:munch: hopefully its not a headgasket.

[shtbxr22]

odds are on your side, I have yet to see a turbo engine lose a head gasket. maybe super high boost, but not at your level.

[SubySnacks]

Will it help if I trade you my steering wheel for your gauge cluster? lol

[07xtreme]

odds are on your side, I have yet to see a turbo engine lose a head gasket. maybe super high boost, but not at your level.

...always positive, i like that. im starting to learn that im turning into a worrier, which i cant stand

Will it help if I trade you my steering wheel for your gauge cluster? lol

hmmm, then how would you steer? cause it would be way easier for me to drive than you:rofl:

[SubySnacks]

LOL we swap wheels and gauges silly.

[07xtreme]

oooh i like where this is going, but i don't know if the hassle of pulling the wheels is worth the horn buttons...

mmm horn buttons, let me mull this one over

[SubySnacks]

Yeah I'm right there with ya lol.