My ride home from work sucked :(

[98Wagoon]

cuz this is how it ended up going..



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/mrangerroy/utf-8BSU1HMDAxNzQuanBn.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/mrangerroy/utf-8BSU1HMDAxNzYuanBn.jpg


its been a rough month for Wagoons.. :unamused:




some happy thoughts from yesterday afternoon...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/mrangerroy/utf-8BSU1HMDAxNzMuanBn.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/mrangerroy/utf-8BSU1HMDAxNzEuanBn.jpg


:spin::spin::spin:

[DHGurs]

www.sadtrombone.com

Sucks. Hopefully she'll be up and running soon. Stupid Tbelt... How many miles and has it ever been changed before?

[98Wagoon]

turned 120k on the ride home. I think it was 120,058. Ive had the car since 73k.. OG tbelt.. my own fault for not changing it.. :palm:

[Aperture]

Yeah def should have changed it. Hopefully it going didn't do too much damage. :-\

[98Wagoon]

Yeah def should have changed it. Hopefully it going didn't do too much damage. :-\

in texting mr shtbxr and giving him as much detail as I could about what happened, year, engine, maf, etc.. it should be ok with just a new tbelt.



basically, I was cruising down 495 between exits 28 and 27, doing only 70 (for once) and I had a complete loss of power. no cel. no shudder. no noise. just a loss of engine power. pulled over, it would still crank, and sounded like there was nothing wrong with the engine at all, BUT, while cranking, it would shake the car pretty bad. I pulled the maf plug to put the car in limp mode and it started a few times, but would idle roughly and if I touched the gas at all, it would sputter and die. the general diagnosis thus far is that the tbelt jumped a tooth or two, and the lack of noises and the engine still turning over points to me being lucky, and possibly not having any bent valves.



we'll see, though.. :palm:

[WRXav8r]

So sad...

[AExiOn]

hopefully you didn't smash the internals up.

I've saw a certain 86 300ZX jump timing and it wouldent even stay running, it would turn over but.. Turning it over just made the valves fist the pistons better..

Good luck man!!

[98Wagoon]

So sad...

freals :(



hopefully you didn't smash the internals up.

I've saw a certain 86 300ZX jump timing and it wouldent even stay running, it would turn over but.. Turning it over just made the valves fist the pistons better..

Good luck man!!

Im gonna pop a valve cover off to see if theres any obvious damage friday when I go have a talk with the car again.. I sent it to Kingston, NH because theres no room at the house with the other wagoon dead in the driveway.

theres been no ill-sounding.. well.. sounds.. not when I was driving, nor when I was trying to start it and letting it just turn over.. so hopefully the lack of metal fist-****ing metal sounds is a good sign :iam:

[Bu11dogg2]

GL man

[boxer3maine]

t belt is the worst.

this time of year is the only time I have over done them.
september, october.

They shrink to heat, go slack in cold.. summer is gone. Everything sucks, life is miserable.
:lol:

subaru still does not know new england. LL bean edition or not.

that particular hood is closed vents up top I would hope... the subes do not need to be dramatic air flowed in the fall.
I am relapsing to a two core all metal radiator just to stop arctica slamming through the front end into my face....20 below driving in the north wind is... ?
not to mention what four trips at 90mph for too long does to the fins...there are entire chunks missing.

As if the subes need a blanket like an old diesel.

anyhoo.. hope the repair is simple. the bent valves can go right back in quiet.. the other stuff is dents.. neither one can keep from running a few more miles.

[squeethebee]

So the tensioner died, eh? Happened to my 2.2 as well, and skipped timing, and ran like crap. IIRC though, Subaru 2.2's are NOT interference motors.

Buy a belt and tensioner and slap the **** in!

ed

[bratman18]

97 and up 2.2's are interference. Good luck!! Hope it didn't do any damage!!

[civic si hb]

What is the recommended miles on the suby's for the T-belt change??

[WRXav8r]

What is the recommended miles on the suby's for the T-belt change??

10 miles before it breaks.... LOL

I think its 90K

[AExiOn]

I was told 100k, but when I did it at 103 the belt still had some life left on her, though the T-stat, also needs to be done at that time.

Hit the engine with a hammer, beat it into submission!

[DHGurs]

Subaru's until 2010 wanted a new Tbelt at 105k. They changed it for 2011 to 97,500

[itsmy04wrx]

That sucks. GL with everything.

[ipassu]

guess mine will be breaking next i was under the impression and was told from multiple people i had to 110k...102k on the car right now looks like ill be screwed soon lol cant afford the tbelt change to next year pepboys wants to much

[Bu11dogg2]

Subaru recommends 110k on 2.0 and 2.5

[98Wagoon]

thanks errbody.. I'll keep you posted once I get a chance to get to the tbelt.. its gonna be about 2 weeks before I can get to where the car is with parts, though.

[Antihero]

Honestly homie, 99% of the subie engines I've seen with snapped T-belts did not come out ok. I hope yours is in the 1%.

Friday is my last day @ singer btw, you should come see me!

[shtbxr22]

2.2s are non interference, and the t-belts were recommended for change every 60k. and 2.0/2.5 is 105k.

[98Wagoon]

Honestly homie, 99% of the subie engines I've seen with snapped T-belts did not come out ok. I hope yours is in the 1%.

Friday is my last day @ singer btw, you should come see me!

its not snapped. engine still turns over. just hopped a tooth or 5.. I think.. I have to drive to concord friday. so I'll be in the legacy.. not sure if I'll make it in there or not, though..




2.2s are non interference, and the t-belts were recommended for change every 60k. and 2.0/2.5 is 105k.

yeah.. I should be on my 2nd tbelt change at this point..

[squeethebee]

2.2s are non interference, and the t-belts were recommended for change every 60k. and 2.0/2.5 is 105k.

True dat, and stupid short interval for non-turbos!

its not snapped. engine still turns over. just hopped a tooth or 5.. I think.. I have to drive to concord friday. so I'll be in the legacy.. not sure if I'll make it in there or not, though..

Tensioner dawg, I'm telling you. :D

ed

[Jaketips42]

That sucks bud! I would have just retimed it on the side of the road... ;) Very easy fix if it's a phase 1 2.2 . I don't remember which one you haz

[Gearhead Geek]

Damn man, that really sucks. Hopefully you'll get lucky and it'll be ok. If not, time for a swap.

As for intervals, always safest to do them ahead of time (ex: 80k)

[civic si hb]

Damn man, that really sucks. Hopefully you'll get lucky and it'll be ok. If not, time for a swap.

As for intervals, always safest to do them ahead of time (ex: 80k)


I guess i;m a little ahead of the curve @ 42,000 miles. I guess I'm now covered for quite awhile now though on the flip side :)

[Gearhead Geek]

I guess i;m a little ahead of the curve @ 42,000 miles. I guess I'm now covered for quite awhile now though on the flip side :)

Well yes and no. Yes you'll have a new belt, but still the original pulleys & tensioner & water pump. That being said, those should last till 100k I would imagine.

[RCKSTR]

Sorry to hear man, I'm hope'n the best for you!

[bratman18]

2.2s are non interference, and the t-belts were recommended for change every 60k. and 2.0/2.5 is 105k.
Only phase 1 2.2's were non interference. 97 and up is interference, thats when they started to make changes to the head design. But I do hope you're one of the lucky ones. I have seen a few that survived!!

[civic si hb]

Well yes and no. Yes you'll have a new belt, but still the original pulleys & tensioner & water pump. That being said, those should last till 100k I would imagine.


Yeah I would think those will last 100K pretty easily but you never know. I'll got down that route in 60,000 miles if still need be :)

[98Wagoon]

Only phase 1 2.2's were non interference. 97 and up is interference, thats when they started to make changes to the head design. But I do hope you're one of the lucky ones. I have seen a few that survived!!


:iam:

[98Wagoon]

so.. Chris (apkarian100) came out to help me redo the timing belt, the auto tensioner, a pulley.. plugs.. etc.. to get the wagoon back up and running.. we (he) got everything on and good to go in 2hrs, went to start.. and nothing.. the car still just turns over.. if it DOES start, it idles, then dies out after a few seconds at best.. its getting plenty of air. no lines are crimped, cut, blocked. its getting spark. its getting fuel. we have no idea. at all. it just turns over...


and no... theres absolutely no CEL, either..

:palm::unamused:

Im honestly looking into engine swaps right now (2.5l) just to get the car on the road again.. as of right now, all I can do is :iam:

[shtbxr22]

i need to poke around mister

[98Wagoon]

I left it half apart but its only in kingston, so its in an easy place to get too for said poking. I have saturday off.. maybe we can work something out? as of right now Im starting to look up what a 2.5 swap will take just to get my car back...

[shtbxr22]

I have saturday off too. i'll be in touch.

[DHGurs]

Your user title, it is borked... :D

[98Wagoon]

I have saturday off too. i'll be in touch.

sounds good. the lack of.. anything.. that its doing.. besides sometimes actually firing up, idling fine for a second, then just dying out.... is making me want to punch kittens.




Your user title, it is borked... :D


I disagree! :lol:

[squeethebee]

Timing off?

ed

[squeethebee]

And maybe do compression test to see if possibly you had an interference 2.2 and munched valves?

ed

[98Wagoon]

we did the timing belt a second time to feel good about ourselves and it was dead on both times. the fact that it didnt make noise and would sometimes actually start, then run fine (for 10 seconds) makes me think its neither timing nor chewed valves. it has no CEL. no scary noises. has spark. air. and fuel. cranks over without a problem. just has trouble actually starting, and then running when it does start. :iam:

[squeethebee]

Yeah, but on the 2.2s there are 2 timing marks on the crank cog(at least on my 97 2.2), are you sure you have it on the right one?

ed

[98Wagoon]

When chris was on the phone with eric he said it sounded right. Guess ill know this weekend...

[Subyspeed]

You sir love the :rooster:

[shtbxr22]

It sounded right to me the way chris desribed it. i need to touch/smell/rub/feel/taste......oh i mean, never mind.

[98Wagoon]

You sir love the :rooster:


dont be jealous I went out shooting my .50 without you.

[98Wagoon]

It sounded right to me the way chris desribed it. i need to touch/smell/rub/feel/taste......oh i mean, never mind.



:berge:


I wont have any tools where the car is because I wont have the legacy. hope thats ok.... unless I can get 04wagoon to show up a little early before work...

[shtbxr22]

are the timing covers off?

[Subyspeed]

dont be jealous I went out shooting my .50 without you.

Thats rubbish !

[98Wagoon]

are the timing covers off?


Nah. Just stupid crap like the intake and crank pulley. Though I could be wrong. Maybe chris will chime in if he remembers...

[98Wagoon]

Thats rubbish !



And put about 80 rounds through my ptr91

[apkarian100]

I put the timing covers back on. Maybe loosely or fully on. Enough to keep bad things out.Nah. Just stupid crap like the intake and crank pulley. Though I could be wrong. Maybe chris will chime in if he remembers...

[98Wagoon]

^that!

so its just random crap still not on, like I said. intake, crank pulley, acc belt etcetc.

[shtbxr22]

well, looks like fueling issue. she ran like a top on the ether. pump swap to come. keep us posted alex.

[98Wagoon]

pump swapped back to the OBS pump. new fuel filter from subaru.


now Ive figured out I have no power going to the fuel pump :unamused:


anyone know which relay controls the fuel pump on a 1998 impreza OBS?

[98Wagoon]

forgot to throw out a BIG thanks to Eric (shtbxr22) for coming to help me out last weekend. not only did he pick me up and bring me to the wagoon, but was able to narrow down the problem within about a half hour. oh.. and I got to ride in the Liberty.. that alone was worth it :wub: Also a grande sized thank you to Chris (apkarian100) for help (ie: doing all the work) with the timing belt and a few random exhaust swaps we ended up doing :lol: yr always a big help since Im useless as a mechanic haha


so where we're at now is locating and replacing the fuel pump relay. everything Ive come up with has pointed to it being tucked up under the dash in the drivers side footwell, and that its a green relay :shrug: the problem now, is that the very little info Ive found about it, had "dash removal" listed as the best method to reach the relay.. Im hoping, with even more help from Eric, we can figure out a way to get to it that doesnt require stripping my car..

[shtbxr22]

Yeah, i'll see if i can get an actual location for you today. :up:

[Seraphinwolf]

Remember my offer. Whole harness with all the little relays and such. :) GIVE ME MONEY AND GET THIS RUNING SO YOU CAN GIVE ME MORE MONEY FOR YOUR FUTURE HUB SWAP!

[98Wagoon]

the harness and relays wont do much good if the threat of dashboard removal to get to the relay is true :lol:

I just want my car so I can go karting and hit up supermeet :(






help me eric-wan kenobi, your my only hope.

[Subyspeed]

:jedi:

[98Wagoon]

justin, use your skinny little arms to reach deep inside my dashboard and fetch this pesky relay thats ruining my life!

[Subyspeed]

just let me know when

[98Wagoon]

my brother and I will hopefully be attacking it friday. so we'll see...

[Bu11dogg2]

GL!!

[shtbxr22]

Do this: (philips screwdriver)

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m194/star91281/100_1449.jpg

This is when you look in between the metal brace and the fuse box. see straight back? the green connector? that's your fuel pump relay.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m194/star91281/100_1450.jpg

Here is straight on: (blind picture)

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m194/star91281/100_1452.jpg

[shtbxr22]

good luck! :up:

[98Wagoon]

awesome! thanks eric!

[98Wagoon]

Can I catch a ****ing break please? The relay didnt do it..

[squeethebee]

Did you test if you have juice going to the fp? Maybe a wire break somewhere?

ed

[04Wagoon]

havent looked again. I had my dad bring me a multimeter and when Im not utterly disgusted with the car I'll check it out again..


ps, this is 98wagoon, not 04wagoon :lol:

[boxer3maine]

fuel pump relay problems and relay is swapped?

I would suspect the weakest link before stabbing with a multimeter...

got a spare ecu? :(

[98Wagoon]

unfortunately that actually popped into my head. but nothing else is wrong. no cel. no strange behavior.. just died one day... so I kind of ruled out the ecu on my own, but it definitely came up in the "things to think about" list.

[boxer3maine]

unfortunately that actually popped into my head. but nothing else is wrong. no cel. no strange behavior.. just died one day... so I kind of ruled out the ecu on my own, but it definitely came up in the "things to think about" list.

I got thinking afterwards...

the biggest suby engine mishap I have ever had was
fuel pump, then, belt.. in nanoseconds apart.

maybe simple as your fuel pump?

it was like 7 degrees freakishly in october/november.

there I was car freighted...hills of dover maine area.

got it on the side of the road, a 5psi pump caved in the pressure regulator but got going on a prime.

away it went.. :lol:

ECU is really rather obvious to lose.

[98Wagoon]

I swapped back to my stock fuel pump already. I was running an STI fuel pump the last few months.


Everett (subaru_crazy) gave me a damn good idea...

I think Im gonna grab a switch, an inline fuse or two, and some spooools of wire.. and then Im going to hardwire that ***** with an inline fuse and a switch race/rally style.. :devil: shouldnt take more than a few hours to mock it up, test it, and tuck it away.... this friday I may give it a go...

[arcadia25]

or....you could check your fuel pump wires first! Make sure one didnt break somewhere or short out :)

[arcadia25]

like what ed said. lol

[98Wagoon]

or....you could check your fuel pump wires first! Make sure one didnt break somewhere or short out :)


psh.. thats the easy way out! if theres anything Ive learned the last 3 weeks of trying to narrow this down it HAS to be something stupid. and easy. :unamused:

[arcadia25]

if only it WAS that easy. lol

[98Wagoon]

well, to be fair.. my rear seats only appear to be bolted in. the seatbacks unlock and can be removed in seconds. the bottom is just the two bolts in front.. wagon ftw! I'll check that, do some creeping with the wires. if I cant find anything, its straight down 125 to radio shack for me.

[04Wagoon]

I'm thinking this will be our Friday project after my visit to the va. Any electric guru's want to swing on by and poke his car with a stick, come on up!

[Subyspeed]

i will poke it with a stick for fun !

but seriously if your sick of the wagon i will take it off your hands as is .....:hide:

[Seraphinwolf]

well, to be fair.. my rear seats only appear to be bolted in. the seatbacks unlock and can be removed in seconds. the bottom is just the two bolts in front.. wagon ftw! I'll check that, do some creeping with the wires. if I cant find anything, its straight down 125 to radio shack for me.
If you need specific parts let me know. I know where there's a bunch of stock Phase 1 OBS electrical parts. Let me know if you need an ECU to test. I do have two sitting here after all.

[98Wagoon]

i will poke it with a stick for fun !

but seriously if your sick of the wagon i will take it off your hands as is .....:hide:


it would have no bumper. no bumper beam, no headlights, no fender lights, no corner lights, a missing exhaust, no battery, a few other engine bits removed, no seats, no radio, no wheels, unless I found steelies.. etc :lol:



gladdis, it wouldnt run without the ecu so Ive crossed that off the list. if we spray starter fluid in it willl happily run, so the spark is there. I'll let you know after this week if theres anything I might need. but if I dont find a break in the wire, Im pulling the relay and Im going hardwire it...

[98Wagoon]

soooo.. Today I swapped in a new ecm and did a check of the wires under the rear seat. Still nothing. Tomorrow I'm going to take the wiring diagrams I acquired and start checking voltage. :shrug:

[squeethebee]

Multimeter FTW!

ed

[98Wagoon]

:iam: